HUMAN RIGHTS
EDITOR’S NOTE: Below, readers will find a transcript of one meeting detailing instructions from Angelo State University administrators to faculty and staff regarding the new LGBT+ policy at the school. Due to the length of the meeting, The Concho Observer has broken it into two parts.
____TUESDAY MEETING____
DEAN: And so, we have been told that the only things that we can have in our curriculum is our items.
If you discuss gender, that is biological men and biological women. And that nothing else can be taught in our classroom.
Nothing else can be discussed in our classroom. At risk of termination. And so I’m just here to forward that information to you.
I will try to answer any questions that you may have.
I believe a lot of your chairs may have forwarded the links.
I will forward the links to the executive order, to the Texas order, and to the Texas House Bill 229 that went into effect on September 1.
So it was passed on May, in May 2025, and on September 1 is when it went into effect.
And we need to just follow what the state and what we are being told to do.
Do you have any questions?
Yes, thank you.
FACULTY MEMBER: So the email address said other things, like we can’t refer to students by different names, not on their roster.
You didn’t mention that. Is that so?
DEAN: So, these questions came up from the chairs meeting that we had on Friday.
So, we were told to use the names that are on the roster, not the preferred name, but their given name.
That’s what we were told.
FACULTY MEMBER: So we can address people by their names on Blackboard? (Blackboard is a learning management system LMS.)
DEAN: By their given name, yes — that’s not their preferred name — but their given name. That’s what we were told on Friday.
FACULTY: Has that preferred name been pulled?
DEAN: I don’t know yet. I don’t know if it has been pulled, but that’s what we were told to follow.
FACULTY: The roster has one name for my students, and Blackboard has a different one.
DEAN: I believe the roster, it comes from the, so it’s completely different?
FACULTY: They’re different for the students that have been identified as not male, female, or whatever.
DEAN: I’m asking Kelly to write down questions, and I will follow up, and I will get back to you.
FACULTY: So one of the reasons that I think that the roster name might be different is that students, I’m thinking of international students go by a different name.
For example, we have a graduate assistant from Korea, but she goes by the name Jane. She was able to change her name and email to Jane. She shows up on rosters as Jane, but that is not her full name.
So I think that’s where some of the disconnect comes in on choosing specific names.
DEAN: Right. I know many people from East Asia that have cut their given name and their American name.
I will follow up on that question. Thank you.
FACULTY: I actually have a person who is also in that situation and not an international student.
So the name in RamPort is a female name, but the name on the roster is a male first name. And so I don’t think it’s only that, and I think it still is in the RamPort system.
DEAN: I will check on this and get back to you.
Thank you. I didn’t know that they were different. I apologize.
FACULTY: That is my case, too. And the individual asked me at the beginning of the semester, when I thought she was a female. She came and said, ‘no, call me by he,’ and I went to RamPort, and it says female in the name.
DEAN: So what I will do is, I will follow up. What we were told is to use their official name. I didn’t know there were two different rosters.
They should get a name. I will get clarification from the provost’s office, and I’m going to get back to you as quickly as possible. Thank you.
FACULTY: What about student-produced work and conversation?
Are we in the position that we have to police what other people … or how students address each other, or what students create?
Are we allowed to respond to what students create?
DEAN: Is it within a curriculum setting, within a classroom setting?
FACULTY: Well, we have a bunch in (class names redacted). There’s a lot of freedom to write about what they wish to write about.
Are we to direct them to say, ‘you are not allowed to write about these topics,’ or as long as we’re not telling them, you have to write about the topics?
DEAN: If it is part of the curriculum, then we were told that you are not allowed to address it.
Because if you’re teaching that and having a discussion about that in a classroom setting, that’s against the law.
FACULTY: But if a student were to take a research topic that they wanted to research… and they wanted to address something that doesn’t fit into the binary composition, are we to tell them, ‘you may not write on this topic?’ Or are we to treat it just like any other topic, because we didn’t bring it up and we’re not talking about it in class?
DEAN: Good question. You were not allowed to discuss that, nor allow that in the classroom setting. Period.
FACULTY: So a student could not submit a paper about a research topic about transgender?
DEAN: As part of the curriculum setting; correct.
FACULTY: So they cannot submit that paper, and we would have to tell them ‘you need to do a different paper.’
DEAN: That second part I don’t know about, but I need to get back to you.
But from what I understand, if it is part of the curriculum, if it is part of a classroom setting that is officially sponsored by our university, then correct, you cannot discuss it. You cannot have that as part of the classroom.
Now, if they want to write about it, fine, but if you address it and accept it, then you are advocating for it to allow it in your classroom. And you are put at risk.
FACULTY: So, we are not to accept a paper written by a student that does not conform to this law?
DEAN: That I don’t know. I need to talk to the provost; to talk with the lawyers. But if it is part of the classroom, and if you address it, and have a conversation about it, then you are putting the university at risk.
And you are putting yourself at risk as the teacher.
FACULTY: Why are the president and provost and these lawyers not here right now?
DEAN: That is a good question. We were told to get this information out to — who asked that?
I’m sorry. Because we were told to get this information out to you as quickly as possible.
And so what we’ll do is, I’ll bring these questions back … and I’m just trying to disseminate this information to you as quickly as possible.
FACULTY: How does this relate to SB 17, student art activities or clubs, where they are wanting to have these conversations outside of the classroom, outside of designated curriculum? If it’s a student-led, student-sponsored club.
DEAN: If it’s a student-led, student-sponsored organization, I understand that recognized student organizations do have a faculty sponsor, but the faculty cannot participate in that discussion.
We cannot tell the student what to do in their student groups outside of the classroom.
FACULTY: So, according to this law, the arts and creative expression are no longer protected.
DEAN: Again, that is a question for the lawyers, and I will bring that to you.
But in the classroom setting, you need to conform to what the law states. And the law states in Texas that we can only address biological men as men, and biological women as women.
No other genders are going to be acceptable to teach in the classroom setting.
It doesn’t matter what we believe or disbelieve. Whether you agree or disagree, I am just telling you what the law is, and what’s going to be recognized by the Texas Tech System and the state of Texas. That’s all I can say.
FACULTY: Yeah, does the calling everyone by the name on the roster, their like birth name, does that apply only to students? Does that apply to nicknames? Does that apply to faculty? Do I now have to call (REDACTED), or everybody by their full name? And are nicknames okay, or do you determine by gender whether we can call them that or not?
DEAN: Again, what is on the given roster, I need to figure out what that roster is. We need to follow that.
In terms of nicknames, I would encourage you to just follow what their given name is. I don’t know about nicknames. Again, it was a little bit unclear to me, and I haven’t had the chance to clarify that because we’re all in new meetings.
But on the roster, if it says Sergio, don’t call him “Serge,” call him Sergio.
But again, we need to follow the law, and we want to be as clear as possible.
FACULTY: You didn’t answer the thing about whether we’re supposed to call everybody that way, or just if it only applies to students in our class.
DEAN: I believe it would be safest to call everybody that way.
FACULTY: So, now I have to call my husband, who goes by (NICKNAME),(NAME REDACTED), while we’re on campus?
DEPT HEAD: The clarification was that if the name is male, the nickname is male.
FACULTY: What if the nickname is gender neutral?
DEPT HEAD: Then you can use it as long as it’s associated with a male.
That’s it, period. There’s a thousand permutations. There’s a Russian professor here.
Those people have to pick the Russian sort of, what would he call it, kind of name?
FACULTY: Yeah, he’d call it Sasha. Sasha could be coming from Alexander or Alexandra.
DEPT HEAD: So in that case, it’s okay.
ANOTHER PERSON: Yeah. But if you call someone named John, Vicky, you’re in trouble.
FACULTY: What if I call him Kelly, since that’s also a gender-neutral name?
DEPT HEAD: Then that’s their name. It’s a very simple process.
FACULTY: I don’t think it is.
DEPT HEAD: If the name is on the RamPort, call them that.
Or you’re going to get fired … the lawyers are at work already on this process. The lawyers have been called. They are gathering all this information.
And in the meantime, as the President said, you’re welcome to confront them, but ASU will not support you in that process. Period.
That’s what they said. But the lawyers are at work trying to sort this out. But in the meantime — unless you want to get fired.
That’s what’s going to happen.
FACULTY: That was a lot of rage you hit her with.
DEPT HEAD: What’s that?
FACULTY: That was a lot of rage you hit her with, by the way.
DEPT HEAD: No, that wasn’t rage. That was clarification.
FACULTY: It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of clarification at all in this situation, until the lawyers come through.
ANOTHER FACULTY: Yeah, it seems like they’re speaking for the lawyers and the lawyers aren’t here.
I’m not speaking for the lawyers when I said that. I was speaking to Dr. (REDACTED.)
I wasn’t speaking for the lawyers.
DEPT HEAD: I was speaking for my faculty. I don’t want my faculty to lose their jobs.
FACULTY: We’re not your faculty.
DEPT HEAD: Until the lawyers obviously are going to confront this.
This is against the law. This is against the law.
It’s against the law.
FACULTY: Except these aren’t laws.
DEAN: I will take questions and I’ll do my best to answer them. I appreciate everybody’s input.
And I will do my best to answer them.
Just a second. I’m going to look to see if there are any questions down the front.
Question: Are we allowed to teach works of literature that include transgender or non-heterosexual characters?
That is a no.
FACULTY: The email is specifically about gender and transgender. And you’re now saying sexuality is also a part of that.
DEAN: I would strongly encourage you to go away from it.
Because you will put yourself and our institution at risk.
FACULTY: What about the historical reality?
DEAN: Hold on. Hold on. I gave my answer. And now I’m trying to get behind it.
I need you to raise your hands, in terms of reference to that question.
FACULTY: First, I’m just going to recognize that you are the messenger.
And our emotional response is appropriate. But I absolutely understand that that’s not where you are within this. So bear with me.
Because, you know, the world is a challenging place.
Something that may be really, really helpful from the university would be a document of best practices, just so that it is clear and unified.
And I know that this is happening very, very quickly. But I guess it’s not a question. It’s more of a request.
Because, for example, right now I am teaching REDACTED in CLASS REDACTED. It’s a lot of fun.
Spoiler alert for those who haven’t. The twist is trans dinosaurs. That’s what that is.
It does not fall within the personhood section that comes out of the United States President’s statement. Because it exclusively talks about that functionality within people, not within animals. But the Texas stuff doesn’t have that specificity.
And there’s actually a lot of things where the stuff that was passed by one group doesn’t match the other one. The one that came from the President of the United States does find things as occurring at conception. Which is different than at birth.
Because at conception literally all of us are female. Can we expect best practices and something that is codified from the university?
I understand the university is hesitant to give ourselves, to put itself in a position. Especially because one of the major things this university does so well is provide financial support for students. (The faculty member here is alluding to the possibility of the university losing federal funding.)
I understand that hesitancy. At the same time, these laws are mutually exclusive. And in such a way that it creates a huge amount of back and forth.
Is there any anticipation on the best practices from at birth?
DEAN: Good question. That did come up at our chair’s meeting. And we asked for that.
So I’m hoping that it will come very soon. For instance, if somebody brings something up, to say, ‘I appreciate your question. I recognize your question.’
We are not allowed to discuss that. And move away from that discussion. I don’t know.
FACULTY: I mean, I hear what you’re saying.
DEAN: It did come up and I’m glad it came up. Because that was one thing that I would like to have as clear statements.
So I will continue to ask that.
They asked if they could have clear guidelines from the institution to guide us through this. And they said, yes, we asked that. But nothing as of yet.
And then Dr. REDACTED said, do you believe that we will be required to add statements about this policy to our syllabi?
And so, will we be required to add statements about this in our syllabi? That would be a directive that I would hope would come from the provost, the office of president, and even the law.
It’s forthcoming, I hope. I don’t know. I don’t know yet.
In fact, what I do know is that we are simply not including anything outside of biological men and biological women. And from what I understand, that is extended to LGBTQs. Extended to that. In the classroom setting.
FACULTY: On the topic of attorneys, are they doing something? Or just simply an obey-in-advance scenario?
Because we’re not really hearing a lot about what their — I mean — this is a clear violation of the First Amendment, Civil Rights Act, and a variety of things.
And from a historical perspective, you know, we’re coming up on our 250th, the anniversary.
We’ve heard a lot from the administration about patriotic history.
What happens when we get an EO of that open teaching history classroom?
I don’t know. They should be here to explain that. That’s not your fault.
DEAN: I get it. They should be here to explain that. This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
So, do you want to hear – just – do you want to hear from – I’m just a proponent to another meeting and, like, how long until – I just want to clarify what the professor said.
So, do you want to hear – no, right? Yes. Do you want to hear from the attorneys and from the institution exactly what went on?
FACULTY: I want to know what his response is.
I feel like we have a pretty good graph on what we can and can’t say, and I guess you should arrest me if you’re not willing at this point. But I would like to know what the response is. Are we willing to offer to die on this issue? That’s what I want to know.
DEAN: We’re not ready to answer that. not yet.
FACULTY: Until someone comes up with some kind of policy, can we have a script when we tell the student we’re not going to call him while we’re talking to him? And a script when the student writes a topic they want to discuss in class.
What do we say? We can’t discuss it. Why? But I want a script because I don’t want to say something and get him in trouble while the administration is featuring it in class. I’d also like a way to let the students know that this isn’t coming from me.
So the faculty are asking for a script once they have a student speak about what they want to call him, et cetera.
Sorry. That’s what we asked for.
I don’t have that literally available right now.
FACULTY: But they’re asking us to do it now, and they’re not giving us any tools to do it. And then it’s going to be on us because, like you said, we’re the ones who are going to be fired.
So how are we expected to do it safely when we don’t know how to do it?
DEAN: Good point. Good point. I will do my best to get that answered as quickly as possible. I will.
FACULTY: So I’m a REDACTED professor, and students, I’m thinking of all the students I have right now, and many students are in both fiction and nonfiction that discusses both gender and queerness. So just to be clear, I have to go in and tell them all, we are not allowed to workshop these pieces.
We’re not allowed to talk about them at all. We’re not allowed to read any of these things. And just kind of to REDACTED’S point, I’m wondering the university is kind of leaving us hung out to dry, that we have to be the messengers.
I mean, I’m thinking of these kids’ faces right now, what they’re going to look like as I tell them, and in one place where they feel safe to write about these things and talk about these things.
And we know these populations are vulnerable, that they deal with mental health issues, that suicide rates among them are much higher.
Thinking about being a messenger to that end feels pretty horrible.
And, yeah, especially in this kind of setting, in the classes I’m teaching. So, like, as I understand it, I have to be that messenger. The university is not sending out a mass email.
I have to go in tomorrow in my grade-learning classes and tell everyone else.
DEAN: As far as I know, yes, right now.
FACULTY: Are we going to be in alignment at all with Texas Tech?
DEAN: I would think so.
I would hope so. From what I understand is all of Texas Tech is going through this. Now, have I had the chance to check? I hope not.
FACULTY: So, do we recognize the difference between trans and gay? That’s my first question, because teaching Shakespeare, you know, men would play all the female parts. And I guess another aspect of that question is, if the answer to that is we can’t teach that, are we allowed to cancel classes until we get answers? Because, I don’t want to make any mistakes or anything like that.
And also, I don’t know, this seems like – I’m not too similar to yourself right now, but it’s just kind of being set up not to fail. B
DEAN: And if there’s other material to cover until we get an answer to that, I would encourage you to do that.
Or you can still teach it without bringing that up in the classroom. Perhaps you can say, ‘I need to get answers. I don’t want to get in trouble.’
You know, we focus on, you know, local lawsuits.
FACULTY: But cross-dressing and trans are separate.
DEAN: Do you want to raise your hand and I’ll recognize you? Yes.
FACULTY: Me, again? Okay. Is this restricted to only in the classroom during class time, or is this also supposed to be any time we’re on campus interacting with students, even ones that aren’t on our rosters, so we have no way of knowing what their roster name is?
DEAN: If you want to split hairs and put yourself at risk.
FACULTY: I’m splitting chairs because it’s a legal responsibility, and they’re saying you’re going to fire us, so we need to know how it’s enforced and exactly when, why, and how.
Like, that clarity is necessary. And
I’m sorry to speak firmly with you when you … but that’s an inadequate answer.
DEAN: So, again, I would strongly encourage you to avoid interacting with, when it comes to discussing trans identity, when discussing these types of things.
If it’s part of a classroom group with students and you’re engaging the students, I would strongly encourage you to avoid that because the university won’t ask you to.
FACULTY: That didn’t answer any part of my question.
DEAN: That’s all I can answer right now.
FACULTY: Will the university help provide us with extra curriculum that supplants what we already have?
Because, for instance, in CLASS REDACTED, we have many topics that do just discuss different kinds of theater groups, including LGBTQ groups. And some of my students have already read some of those chapters.
Do we tell them to close their eyes when they enter that chapter? Do I just remove it? It’s a smart book, so I don’t really have control over its content.
So what kind of recourse is there for that kind of curriculum adjustment, especially for someone like myself, who this isn’t a full-time position for me.
I’m an adjunct, so I don’t really have time to go scouring the universe for new material all the time.
DEAN: Again, if it’s in a book and you’ve already chosen, you’ve already started the semester, if it discusses these types of issues, do not discuss them in the classroom.
(DEAN restates his desire to have people to raise hands to be recognized.)
FACULTY: I was curious how this would impact our own research.
As someone who specializes in gender and sexuality studies, will this impact what I am allowed to publish with Angelo State’s name on it?
DEAN: I asked that question in terms of personal research.
I very clearly asked that question, and I was told that we probably wouldn’t receive funding moving forward. Now, I didn’t get a response — a clear response — on what would happen.
(MUDDY PORTION)
FACULTY: I think it’s a clarification on one case. So, I have a student, it’s a female that identifies as a male, and I just checked the roster.
On the roster, it’s the preferred name that’s listed. So, I’m sure the student can go through a process to put that in the roster, and that’s the preferred name.
When I click on that student, it goes to the student profile with the female name, or I guess the legal name.
The university will then refer to those, because the name that appears to be is the name that the student wants to be called and recognized by on the roster.
(MUDDY PORTION)
DEAN: That was one of the first questions asked, and we’re getting to the, I need to get to the provost, how it’s going to be dealt with in the system.
I understand also that there are two separate rosters — there’s an official roster, and a RamPort roster.
You were told to use their given name.
So, use their given name, you know, what is on the official roster.
FACULTY: In my roster, it’s not the given name. And I don’t think that’s going to be reverted, because they probably went through the official list and had that changed.
DEAN: The person in the very back, yes.
FACULTY: Well, this is, you know, we’ve talked a lot about this in the past, but what I want to know is, given that, you know, we push this idea of RamFam, what are we doing for the students?
They’re the ones who are really affected; I had a student in my class, who knew this was coming, came into my office crying — didn’t feel safe going to class.
What are we doing for them? That’s what I want the administration to …(trails off.)
DEAN: And that was a question I had as well, by a department chair and a friend. I don’t think we’ve had a response to that.
We didn’t get a complete response yet, because it’s so new. We’re trying to get the information out, so we’re trying to…
FACULTY: Faculty demand a response. I don’t think I’m just speaking for myself.
(Someone seconds the motion)
DEAN: I hear you. I hear you; I do.
FACULTY: So, I have a lot of different questions, but I keep hearing that this is a law that’s been made, that we’re going under, and then what it means for the students is that there is executive order at the federal level, and then essentially there’s a memo at the state level.
And I know executive order is for direct federal agencies, and the state memo is for state agencies, but neither of those are laws.
So, and — I know you need to get legal counsel on this — but I’m curious about why we’re being told it’s a law, but it doesn’t seem to actually be a law.
FEMALE VOICE: It’s a law.
DEAN: There is House Bill 329 that was passed.
FACULTY: But that’s about how we collect statistics, defining male and female, and boy and girl, and father and mother.
It doesn’t say anything about teaching in that one.
DEAN: I am not a lawyer… And so I will bring this question to you. I love your question. Thank you.
FACULTY: My question is about the pride stickers and removing those. Does that also extend to pride stickers on vehicles if they’re parked in faculty lots?
DEAN: From what I understood, it was just from the offices.
But, again, that was just what I heard. It doesn’t mean that you’re automatically …
some questions okay thank you all right in the very back who has not had a question yes very back yes yes well I will say.
FACULTY: Texas Tech has not been hit with this yet — I’m just saying everybody…
ANOTHER FACULTY MEMBER: Yea! … We’re first …
FACULTY: Okay, so how does this affect students working in the Academic Support Center? Or students to abide — the tutors — are they to abide by these restrictions as well?
Because they are associated with departments, and specifically the REDACTED DEPT.
They’re hired under the REDACTED department, so, are they to abide by these restrictions as well?
DEAN: From what I understand that things are being worked out with different areas of the institution — I don’t know personally.
I do know that things are being worked out and discussed.
So I would assume, because they’re advisors or whatnot, that they’re going to be trained; but that’s what I hope.
FACULTY: Because, specifically in the REDACTED, whatever students and the tutors they meet — other students writing, so can they help revise, or provide advice on work that deals with these topics, that they’re prohibited?
DEAN: That’s a good question.
FACULTY: And also, in terms of how students address other students, will that be affected?
Because they are students, they’re not faculty, but they are associated with other faculty.
DEPT HEAD: And students can bring writing into REDACTED to help if they aren’t necessarily assigned to the class.
They bring something in, and it’s a student to student peer tutoring situation.
That’s a good question.
I will ask that.
If it’s just independent audience, you know that they want to have a full question.
That’s a good question.
I will ask it.
FACULTY: That was actually the first part of my question, because in REDACTED, we have a large number of student employees.
And that’s the thing.
Within that, I’m in REDACTED.
I am WORK REDACTED right now.
It is a part of my course load, but it is not a part of my students’ course load.
I don’t have this information.
And I cannot ask them for it by the law, but I have somebody in my show– I have multiple people in my show who are not in the REDACTED department.
I’m not their advisor.
I have no ability to get that information because of this, but I also–
I’m also in a position where my REDACTED do REDACTED for credit, where there are educational elements to it.
I’m looking for best practices, because I don’t– I have students where I couldn’t tell you what their legal names are, because they’re in my REDACTED, but they’re a history major, or an exercise science major, or whatever the other ones are.
(A THREE MINUTE DISCUSSION INVOLVING STUDENTS INVOLVED IN ACTIVITIES ON CAMPUS, BUT NOT IN A CLASSROOM SETTING, AND HOW THAT WAS A CHALLENGE TO THE POLICY. DISCUSSION MOVED TOWARD IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS, CONCLUDING WITH THE FACT THAT SOME EUROPEAN PASSPORTS MAY INDICATE A GENDER OTHER THAN MALE OR FEMALE.)
Transcript resumes at 36:39
FACULTY: How did we get from a binary sex and gender, to now we can’t talk about LGBTQ.
You can’t talk about anything that deals with this, in literature or history or anything like that, when this has nothing in the scope of this law.
And I get that I might get fired.
I get that.
But what kind of risk is the university getting with someone who potentially has a problem with me teaching REDACTED?
Which is what I teach.
So I can’t get away with not talking about this…
…And so, I guess I just can’t imagine a world in which ASU is getting shoveled because I talk about REDACTED.
It’s very frustrating.
Yes.
It is frustrating.
DEAN: So, I will bring that to the attorneys.
(THE DEAN ACKNOWLEDGES THE FACULTY MEMBER’S POINT, AND MENTIONS OTHER THINGS THAT MAY CREATE CONFUSION OR PROBLEMS.)
DEAN: And so, what I will do, is I will add that question to the long list of questions, and I will try to get back to you as soon as possible.
FACULTY: It just seems like we’re getting in front of a problem that has yet to happen.
And if that’s– I mean, I in many ways get it from people on A&M.
But it seems like this is– we’ve taken this ball, and we have — to use an A&M metaphor — run it all the way downfield, right, to the point where it doesn’t even look like this law.
Why? is my question.
____END OF PART 1____
____BEGINNING OF PART 2____
(MUDDLED EXCHANGE BETWEEN DEAN AND FACULTY MEMBER; THE DEAN EXPRESSES THANKS TO THE FACULTY MEMBER FOR THEIR QUESTION AND SAYS THAT ‘THIS IS IMPORTANT.’)
DEAN: And if I need clarification, I’ll reach out and contact — at least the department chairs — because I don’t know if she’s writing down the name of the professor who’s asking this — but I will.
(A MURMUR LASTS FOR MORE THAN ONE MINUTE)
FACULTY: I haven’t looked, but is it obvious when we go into Blackboard and RamPort — the gender? — does it tell that, or do we have to look?
DEPT HEAD: In RamPort, it is.
FACULTY: But do we have to go look? — So my question is, going the other direction: does a student have the right to privacy?
Like if I go fishing, looking at the student’s records — I’m not their advisor — to verify their identity.
I don’t know what’s under their clothes. And I don’t want to presume, going in the other direction.
So it seems to me we could run afoul of right to privacy.
DEAN: That’s an interesting question.
FACULTY: Because I would have to search and look up their personal information and record to verify whatever their gender is.
I’m not sure that I have the right to do that, unless I’m their advisor. Right?
DEAN: I will, in, at least in the classes that I’ve got in class, I’m not saying that it happens here, but we have had access to the student record in, well, here’s RamPort.
FACULTY: No, it’s not that I don’t have access, it’s just, it’s not, it’s, I would have to search for it.
DEAN: But it’s part of your class roster, and it’s information available to you? No? It’s all on the roster.
FACULTY: So I have to make an assumption [ABOUT] the students sitting in front of me, and I don’t know what’s under their clothes.
And to me, I’m saying, that could be harassment for me to assume something.
But what’s going on under those clothes?
I teach (CLASS REDACTED.)
I have to assign a gender.
I’ve already told my students I’m not going to correct.
I’m going to say .
I’m going to get both gender.
And whatever comes out of your mouth, I don’t know, because I don’t know what’s under your clothes.
And I don’t want to be accused of sexual harassment.
DEAN: I understand what you’re saying.
FACULTY: Do you see what I mean?
DEAN: You want to be protected to make sure that you’re not stalking or–.
FACULTY: Or pursuing what’s going on under their clothes.
Now, I already told them, if we’re talking about Maria, Bama, or Spice Girls, or Jonas Brothers, we’re going to go with — the socially-accepted gender roles there.
But when students are talking about themselves; if a student says, (INDISTINGUISHABLE), and they’re what I would think of as a woman, I cannot presume that that’s an error, because I don’t know what’s going on here.
So I just can’t correct it.
DEAN: I understand what you’re saying.
FACULTY: I think by regarding the student names that I personally like, I always look at the roster and call them my voice in the roster, which is — may be different than the student profile, you know.
But I think that we should … that the university should communicate to students, saying ‘starting this day, all faculty will address you only hide the name that is in the roster.’
I think that would be good for all of us, if that happens — coming from above, [RATHER] than coming from us.
And to say, hey, starting today, I’m not going to call (INDISTINGUISHABLE FOR A FEW SECONDS)
… And then they know that it’s not our choice. It’s coming from higher.
DEAN: I agree.
I agree.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION
FACULTY: I just want to clarify my understanding:
So you are saying, that we are extending this not talking about, not extending the work about, trans identity to sexual activity?
Like if I have a student who is a lesbian writing about her experiences, and I have already said like this is okay, because it was okay at the time, do I put? — like how do I handle putting them at an academic disadvantage — of having to redo an assignment? If we have to ask them to redo it.
DEAN: Right.
DEAN: From what I understand — and that could be, we’re getting wrong — but yes it does apply to LGBTQ.
FACULTY: So like but how do I handle ….?
(A STRONG MURMUR ARISES MAKING THE RECORDING DIFFICULT TO DISTINGUISH FOR A FEW SECONDS. SEVERAL FACULTY MEMBERS ARE SPEAKING AT ONCE.)
DEPT HEAD: This is the direction (MUDDY)… whether you agree or disagree with that I just said, the directive that I see…
FACULTY: How would you recommend I put the student having academic because we’ve been working on some programs okay and it would be unfair to that student or any other students to have to redo all of that work while trying to complete other assignments in my course.
DEAN: Right. Moving forward, be very clear that we cannot discuss these issues.
FACULTY: Yeah.
DEAN: Okay?
FACULTY: That’s one thing.
DEAN: I will get back to you on whether they have to redo, or whether you just start a new.
FACULTY: So do I inform them, like — until I know — I cannot accept your work?
DEAN: But you cannot discuss; yes.
FACULTY: OK, so [WHAT IF] if I acknowledge it through accepting it — through a submission?
DEAN: That is– Good question.
I don’t know.
I need to make sure that before I give a response, I have not– we need not get that detail.
FACULTY: Can I– would it be OK if we– because, again, this is all legally scary.
DEAN: Yes.
I can tell that student, ‘I do not have this information, (INDISTINGUISHABLE) to say that I cannot accept this.
It would be okay for me to say.
DEAN: I would say yes for now. Okay.
Because they did the work; acknowledge that, but you can’t discuss it, and move forward with that piece of work.
So let’s just say you have, for instance, a speech.
I know this example.
You have a speech and you give two different types of speeches.
You know, okay, say acknowledge that they did the work, but moving forward, have to change the subject and have the speech on a completely different topic and get for two or three weeks in order to be able to change the topic, et cetera.
Because let’s just say we’re going to talk about, ‘Hi, I’m this person, and I’m trans (UNCLEAR).
FACULTY: She’s not trans.
DEAN: Again, unacceptable. Or if I’m LGBTQ — It’s no.
FACULTY: Are y’all — is the state conflating everything under — they don’t — do they have a great capacity to distinguish between?
DEAN: Again, I am not the state.
FACULTY: I know, but I’m just
DEAN: So, I’m just trying to tell you ..
FACULTY: So; ASU is translating this as “anything on this spectrum, anything that’s represented by these letters is no? Is …
DEAN: It runs a risk to you and —
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: I guess I’m curious about what level of surveillance we should expect.
Is this going to be something that is asked of the students?
“Hey, tattletale on your teachers if they bring this up.”
Are there gonna be recording devices in our classrooms at this point, that people will go through and make sure that we’re not accidentally mentioning anything?
Like how much is ASU going to support the violation of our rights?
DEAN: I don’t know what it would be, or I don’t know. That’s a good question.
I do know that we’re trying to protect the institution. Are they going to come through?
I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s a good question.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: How concerned should LGBTQ staff members be that we are going to start being discriminated against?
That’s my next question, because I am very concerned that just being myself is going to cause a big commotion now, because that seems like the direction we’re going.
That seems like the next direction; that me just being a teacher is going to be a concern for our Texas Tech University System next. Yeah.
And I know you can’t guarantee anything, but that’s where my mind is going.
I don’t know about any of the rest of you, but yeah, a little concerned.
DEAN: We’ll go one, just a second.
As you say, teaching constitutional law can include Supreme Court cases on LGBTQ issues.
(THERE IS AN INDISTINGUISHABLE PORTION OF SEVERAL SECONDS.)
FACULTY: To clarify, we cannot teach things.
DEAN: We cannot teach things — this isn’t a question, okay.
Can we teach things like queer theory or works with homosexual literature?
And I’m going to say at the current time, unless, if I remember correctly, to the department chairs, that is a no, correct?
Because it was brought up in our meeting with …
FACULTY: That one of my questions.
DEPT HEAD: In that meeting, it was very explicitly Trans; the executive orders are very explicitly trans, and HB 229 is very explicitly trans.
I don’t remember anything in that meeting that was beyond Trans — like LGBQ, you know — no “T” — just leave the T off kind of thing.
So I think that’s something we really need some clarification [on].
DEAN: Okay, thank you.
Do you remember that specifically saying? Banners … And the stickers? … and I do remember that.
So I will come back, and maybe I understand, so I will come back with us.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: Is the university moving to maybe change our values that the administration has created?
Because I read from diversity and inclusion, and it says, quote, ‘celebrate appreciation and build in our differences.’
‘Build a culture of participation and belonging.
‘Create and nurture a safe environment.
‘Practice and advocate empathy, just treatment, and mutual respect for everyone.
‘Stand up against injustice to form a foundation of trust in the camp building.’
DEAN: I don’t know.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
(INDISTINGUISHABLE PORTION)
FACULTY: Because I’m sorry, I’m very concerned with the students I have right now, if we’re going to be including sexuality, that this isn’t– again, going back to– I don’t want to be accused of discrimination, especially if it doesn’t include sexuality.
Is there anybody whose name I can attach? to — aside from my own — as a communicator to the student?
DEAN: I’m not quite sure of your question.
QUESTIONS FROM A FEW FACULTY AT THE SAME TIME: How do we– Where does accountability fall?
Who shares liability with us?
ORIGINGAL QUESTIONER: So, if I was communicating with a student, and if they eventually received this, that this has to do with trans identity and LGBTQ, but if it doesn’t communicate that it includes LGBT, would I be at risk of discrimination if I say that they can’t write about it?
DEAN: About trans? or gender?
ORIGINGAL QUESTIONER: No, not trans, sexuality — purely sexuality — like they are adhering to.
DEAN: Let me get back to you on that.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: I know it’s a small percent of the population, but so are trans people … About 1 percent: what do we do in the case of an intersex student? Somebody who has sex characteristics, biologically or genetically, for both.
DEAN: I don’t know, because we’re following biology.
(MURMUR OF DISCORD ARISES)
ANOTHER FACULTY: That is biology.
ORIGINAL QUESTIONER: And also, if somebody appears to not be that gender.
(STRONGER MURMUR OF DISCORD)
DEAN: Okay, I ask you, please be polite … because I’m trying to be as polite and as open as I can. You don’t need to yell at me, okay? Thank you. I’m trying to be polite to understand; it was just a question.
I understand that is biology. So XXY or XYY is the intersex gene. What do we do about it?
Is that correct?
FACULTY: Yes.
DEAN: All right. I will ask. Thank you.
FACULTY: Just so I’m certain on what NAME REDACTED had said behind me; so right now we are only dealing with students who are Trans? Not students who are gay or bisexual?
DEAN: I will get clarification…
…I will get clarification and I will try to get an answer to you by the end of today.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: What are we doing with the textbooks? … There’s only one book in my class, that I cannot teach this class without that book.
The issue is this class in there; there is an entry about gender. It’s about … There are these things in the book.
I don’t necessarily cover it because it’s a style book.
But it’s in there, and it’s assigned to the class.
What do I do with it?
And I cannot teach this class without the book, because it’s a standard across the industry.
If I remove the book, I might as well just not teach the class.
DEAN: I hear you.
You’re going to be able to find information.
I need to ask, but — this is just me stating — you don’t cover it in the class.
And if it comes up in class and does discuss it and say, ‘I’m not allowed to discuss trans identity,’ then we should be okay.
FACULTY: I can keep them?
DEAN: I don’t see why not.
But, you know, moving forward, I need to ask that question.
Good question.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: So — number one — thank you for being punching bag here today.
DEAN: Yeah. You’re rough, and I love the questions. I really do. I really do appreciate…
FACULTY: And I don’t want to belabor a point, but we’ve said a lot about covering trans content, but what about the author?
DEAN: About the what?
FACULTY: So if I assign a journal article, to read in my CLASS REDACTED, that has nothing to do with transgender; if the author is transgender, can I no longer use that?
Are we differentiating content from creator?
DEAN: That’s a great question.
And, if the content doesn’t describe it, I will ask that.
Personally, and again, I’m not the lawyers.
If it doesn’t cover the body of content not being discussed, again.
But I need to come back.
If there is a clearly trans-identified author, Creator that’s not discussing those issues can we use that? Great question.
FACULTY: So we’re going to get a … little bit of time to rewrite … some of our syllabi because I’m going to have to take out some stuff having to do with REDACTED, and some stuff that’s a little dodgy now.
Because I definitely have some students in my class that will want to pull the trigger and go, ‘So, how many genders are there?’
Just to try and trap me, is what I would assume … Any advice for students that might try and trap you?
Like, … may have happened at a different campus.
I’m not saying that any of our students would ever do that.
DEAN: So any advice on students that are bringing things up that can be discussed?
FACULTY: Well, that would actually just walk in or take advantage of the point in a lecture, and just bring it up casually, like, ‘So, how many genders are there?’
And then you would have to answer — obviously — but, should you just avoid stuff?
Because I now have to change — I’ll go out on a limb and say — 50 slides and 10 questions on my test next week (CLASS INFO REDACTED)… it would be some questionable subject matter there.
DEAN: I would stick with the law…
Biological men, biological women, with the caveat that I’m finding out about the (UNDISTINGUISHABLE)….
Thank you.
I’m learning a lot.
FACULTY: So obviously, there’s a lot of reflecting into this issue.
I appreciate you being here and fielding all these questions.
I think some of the faculty would be interested in, what … can you give some clarity on the consequences of a infraction?
Does that mean somebody been fired?
Or are they just reprimanded?
Or they just have a discussion, or what would be the consequences if someone does make a mistake … on what they’re asking of us?
DEAN: Good question.
It’s pretty clear to me that we’re going to run some serious risk.
It’s pretty clear.
It was pretty clear to us as department chairs that, because the emails coming from the president that were forwarded to you, with the links, and that the department chair’s forwarded to you… It was pretty clear to me that you run the risk of hurting of .
(UNDISTINGUISHABLE)
It was pretty clear to me.
Whether I agree with you or it doesn’t matter — following law, whatever. That’s what they’re saying.
FACULTY: Okay, so what you’re saying is if there some sort of infraction…
DEAN: That’s why it’s my job to get this out to faculty.
I’ve asked you to sign it, and like the president said, we’re asking you to sign it just to make sure that you’re here, and it’s my job to get it out to the people who aren’t here.
And that’s why I asked you to sign the sign-in, so we can get that information to adjuncts.
FACULTY: So how long would we have to implement these changes in our syllabus? In our course content?
Like, do we have a deadline?
Like, do we have some leeway to remove these, and be in the process of removing any content, and too, past videos because I teach an online class I don’t know what is mentioned in it um like word by word but …like in sexuality, can I leave the videos that were created and [POSTED] during the time before we got this news can I leave that up or am I required to remove them?
DEAN: Okay — ASAP — as soon as possible, to change this information in the syllabi, and of course content — do you not teach it now. okay?
The material that covers this semester, absolutely remove it.
FACULTY: Yeah, but past creative content, because the videos are [POSTED] introducing assignments, and if it mentions gender–
DEAN: If you’re using it in this class during this semester, even if it’s past content, you’re using it…
FACULTY: OK, so just remove it entirely.
DEAN: Just to be safe.
FACULTY: So, if I’m in the process of removing it, and say — somebody did bring it up, and was like, ‘Hey, this professor is teaching this currently,’ but I’m not yet there, how can I say I haven’t seen this video?
DEAN: I would just remove it, and if somebody brings it up, you say we cannot discuss non… or Trans identity types of issues.
FACULTY: Oh, I meant more like if I’m in the process of going through, video by video, assignment by assignment, handout by handout — just making sure that it’s mentioned nowhere — and a student sees it and brings it to, let’s say, your attention or somebody else’s attention, like, ‘Hey, this is in the course, but I haven’t yet reached there because I’m still going [THROUGH IT] hypothetically with a fine-tooth comb.
How can I say, I wasn’t teaching it yet, I just haven’t reached that point of removing it.
DEPT HEAD: I would say I’m going to find future content.
FACULTY: Even past content.
DEPT HEAD: Right, but I’m saying if you’re not going to deploy it until six weeks, why have that?
(INDISTINGUISHABLE PORTION)
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: Yeah, I’ve worked all over the world.
I’ve worked in places where it’s dangerous to be queer, you know — Sharia law and whatnot.
But, I mean, this is a lot like that.
Of course, you follow the law. But we’re not following the law. We’re going beyond the law.
So, we need to get the lawyers to pull back before we violate the students’ rights. And then we’re accountable directly.
DEAN: What’s the question?
FACULTY: We need real clarity on the law, and where we are with the law.
And who’s going to protect us when we’re accused of violating student rights?
DEAN: Okay.
The law, as I see it, as what we were told, is translated.
And the question about LGBQ, I need to get clarity on that.
Now, if you are following that, then –again — we will do our best, the university will do our best to support it, but if you’re just ignoring it, then you’re at risk.
That’s what I was saying.
FACULTY: I agree.
I’m just saying it’s like the clarity on the law is what’s important.
Like we need ‘Crystal’ clear.
DEAN: Crystal clear? — No. Transgender.
FACULTY: Binary sexuality?
DEAN: Men. Absolutely. Biological men, biological women.
Whether you agree or disagree with it, is not, it’s not for me to say.
That’s what we were told.
FACULTY: Yeah, I just want that clarity, because it’s confusing when we start to roll out into other queer culture… that’s crazy.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: I just, not to belabor any points, but it occurred to me from the question over there regarding steps of what would happen if somebody — if a student, say — accused us.
..I think we already mentioned earlier — clarification on —
are they allowed to record us speaking? If it’s not a specific accommodation — I know some students have that accommodation.
But are students allowed to record us on their phones without our knowing?
And secondly, I mean; everyone’s seen an evaluation where you have a student who maybe didn’t get a good grade and is embittered.
If you have a student who is embittered, knowing this, just come out and accuse you, and there’s no — it’s your word versus their word — that is something that we would need clarification on, too.
How at risk are we if, say, you have a student who’s mad at the grade they got, and wants to get back at you, and says, ‘This is the way I can get back at this professor.’
Would the administration believe us? Would the student… I mean, what would happen in this situation?
ANOTHER FACULTY MEMBER: So, is it an acceptable practice? If you’re in a course, would that– where transgender as a topic, or as content comes up, to sit down and– I don’t know, in-and-of-itself, it would violate the law. But could the class agree that they were OK with content?
(THE ANSWER GIVEN HERE IS NOT CLEAR)
DEPT HEAD: You know, obviously, we’re all very passionate about this, and that issue of whether or not this is a violation of our free speech rights, the First Amendment, is front and central to this.
I would remind everybody, too, I guess, that our administration — I was in this meeting — did not ask for this to come about.
The people that we’re arguing with are not our administration.
These are state legislators that got it in their head to do this.
As far as how closely we’re going to be watched, it’s my belief — and I can’t prove that — that the case of A&M was planned.
There’s no way that wasn’t planned, because it went from the student to the governor in one day.
That woman was assigned to take that class.
This began when we were asked to have our syllabi online by a particular date, and when that happened, it became possible for all Republican activist groups to survey everything that was here.
That’s what they’re doing.
So if this is on your syllabus, they’re looking for an opportunity to take this out.
In the meantime, our administration assured us, and they were taking notes copiously at this meeting that we went to, saying, ‘This is a question for the lawyers,’ ‘This is a question for the lawyers,’ ‘This is a question for the lawyers.’
So they have a long list of questions for our lawyers, and so
these are all — I think — going to be clarified fairly soon.
I can’t imagine that they’re going to dally in doing this.
So we’re going to, I think, have some clarification fairly soon with my sense of that.
In the meantime, also remember that if you violate this law, there is no protection.
And at A&M, they didn’t just take out professors.
They took out the department chair, the dean, and ultimately,
A member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a four-star general, the highest-ranking general in the United States Air Force, lost his job, in one week, because he was a part of this.
I think what our administration is trying to get across, is that — in that to protect us, in this short term — they’re asking us, please be careful about what you’re doing.
I’m not doing this as an effort to squelch our own free speech on here on our campus, it’s an effort to protect us from what’s going on here, which I can’t believe that this isn’t going to be challenged in the courts.
You know what I mean? Free speech.
But who knows what the Supreme Court’s going to do?
In the meantime, I think that’s where we stand.
Our administration is — you know, our President was close personal friends with the President of A&M, and he saw him lose his job on that day.
So that’s kind of what we’re thinking about.
DEAN RECOGNIZES ANOTHER QUESTION:
FACULTY: How can we hope to be secure in some way? I mean — I’m. I don’t know if we have any –.
And then can we rely? If the administration is not here right now, facing us and trying to — they put you in this position, you are a new person here — and they literally put you out here … if they’re not here, to face us with this, how can we even hope that there will be some kind of pushback on that? Some kind of protection for students? for us?
DEAN: We even– I’m going to tell you right now, I’m scared for our faculty.
I don’t want to be– I don’t want to be…
I know that there are things that are going to occur…
I know there are some of you that are hurt. I get that.
I’m just trying to be the middle person, and I’m sure that this president and the provost have our best interests at heart.
It just takes a little time for us to get the plan in motion.
I think what they’re trying to do is just get that information out as quick as possible, then we’re going to come back.
I’ve had four conversations with the provost this morning, before noon, and he was in and out of meetings with the attorneys, … So, I’m hoping to get more answers, and I will come back to you as quickly as I possibly can, because I’m not in this to piss people off, I’m in this because I love teaching students, and I love working with you folks, but we do need to follow up what is our current law, and we need to whether we agree or disagree with it.
MUDDIED PORTION; TOO MANY VOICES AT ONCE
FACULTY: As far as the consequence of losing your job or being fired to violate this, I mean, that’s a consequence that ASU is imposing on the faculty, right?
With the expectation that they’re going to be sued.
Is that right?
Because some of this is not actually– it’s sort of an overreaction, like we just want to exercise certain level of caution because some of what you’re saying — and not just you, but what’s in the e-mail — is not actually in either of those links …
So I just, I guess my question is, is it that ASU is like you’re on, we’re gonna, we’re putting you in a double bind here, right?
Like you have to do this, implement this, say these things to your students and we’re also not gonna cover you; we’re not. You’re actually gonna lose your job.
Right?
DEAN: I think we’re asking you to put this into place, so you are.
If you go outside of that, once you’ve done these things, then absolutely, that’s what we’re trying to do, is trying to protect you and the institution, so we don’t get shut down.
FACULTY: It just seems like this is something that A&M did.
Like they could have protested it.
Where does it end?
Like when they come to some other ridiculous, like — you know, this is one thing. Where is it all going to end?
…. When they come up with some other ridiculous proposition as far as like, you can’t teach slavery; you can’t teach racism; you can’t teach any of these other ideologies that they don’t agree with [BEING TAUGHT].
I don’t know.
Are we going to ever be protected?
Like, what about our rights as, you know, academics?
Because this doesn’t stop in the state of Texas.
Your discipline is an international discipline.
And you are kneecapping not only academics, but also our students, our graduate students, who need to be aware of the conversations in your field.
You can’t talk about stuff.
It doesn’t– this is all a network, right?
Just like everybody’s saying, now I can’t assign this reading or that reading because it may be reference.
We can’t account for everything that’s said in our discipline.
We see how they are just glossing over and simplifying a very complicated issue.
And I’m just– I guess my question is, I want to know what is ASU going to do?
This is it?
They’re just going to roll over? Say, well — I mean, that’s what it seems like.
I get what you’re saying, that this is how they’re implementing the response to these laws, or whatever…
END OF RECORDING
