HUMAN RIGHTS
A Letter from ASU Provost Don R. Topliff, Ph.D.
The Concho Observer was furnished with a written communication to the faculty of Angelo State University on Friday, Sept. 26, regarding the new LGBT+ policies on campus.
Dr. Topliff writes:
Recent events at universities across Texas have underscored the importance of understanding compliance responsibilities related to student instruction, as emphasized in communications from President Hawkins and Chancellor Mitchell. To support ongoing compliance, the following guidance is provided for faculty.
Review Syllabi
- Faculty should review syllabi and course materials to remove any outdated or noncompliant language.
Align Course Content
- Faculty should align course materials and instruction with updated syllabi and communicate adjustments to students, accordingly.
Additional Information
- Faculty seeking additional information should continue to work with their Dean and Department Chairs.
- Questions may also be submitted (via email).
Not meeting these requirements may bring the university out of compliance with federal and state laws, as well as Executive Orders. Gaps in compliance may prompt the need for corrective actions.
Thank you for you attention to this matter.
Don R. Topliff, Ph.D.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Below, readers will find a transcript of the first 40 minutes of one meeting detailing instructions from Angelo State University administrators to faculty and staff regarding the new LGBT+ policy at the school. Due to the length of the meeting, The Concho Observer will publish it in two parts.
____TUESDAY MEETING____
DEAN: And so, we have been told that the only things that we can have in our curriculum is our items.
If you discuss gender, that is biological men and biological women. And that nothing else can be taught in our classroom.
Nothing else can be discussed in our classroom. At risk of termination. And so I’m just here to forward that information to you.
I will try to answer any questions that you may have.
I believe a lot of your chairs may have forwarded the links.
I will forward the links to the executive order, to the Texas order, and to the Texas House Bill 229 that went into effect on September 1.
So it was passed on May, in May 2025, and on September 1 is when it went into effect.
And we need to just follow what the state and what we are being told to do.
Do you have any questions?
Yes, thank you.
FACULTY MEMBER: So the email address said other things, like we can’t refer to students by different names, not on their roster.
You didn’t mention that. Is that so?
DEAN: So, these questions came up from the chairs meeting that we had on Friday.
So, we were told to use the names that are on the roster, not the preferred name, but their given name.
That’s what we were told.
FACULTY MEMBER: So we can address people by their names on Blackboard? (Blackboard is a learning management system LMS.)
DEAN: By their given name, yes — that’s not their preferred name — but their given name. That’s what we were told on Friday.
FACULTY: Has that preferred name been pulled?
DEAN: I don’t know yet. I don’t know if it has been pulled, but that’s what we were told to follow.
FACULTY: The roster has one name for my students, and Blackboard has a different one.
DEAN: I believe the roster, it comes from the, so it’s completely different?
FACULTY: They’re different for the students that have been identified as not male, female, or whatever.
DEAN: I’m asking Kelly to write down questions, and I will follow up, and I will get back to you.
FACULTY: So one of the reasons that I think that the roster name might be different is that students, I’m thinking of international students go by a different name.
For example, we have a graduate assistant from Korea, but she goes by the name Jane. She was able to change her name and email to Jane. She shows up on rosters as Jane, but that is not her full name.
So I think that’s where some of the disconnect comes in on choosing specific names.
DEAN: Right. I know many people from East Asia that have cut their given name and their American name.
I will follow up on that question. Thank you.
FACULTY: I actually have a person who is also in that situation and not an international student.
So the name in RamPort is a female name, but the name on the roster is a male first name. And so I don’t think it’s only that, and I think it still is in the RamPort system.
DEAN: I will check on this and get back to you.
Thank you. I didn’t know that they were different. I apologize.
FACULTY: That is my case, too. And the individual asked me at the beginning of the semester, when I thought she was a female. She came and said, ‘no, call me by he,’ and I went to RamPort, and it says female in the name.
DEAN: So what I will do is, I will follow up. What we were told is to use their official name. I didn’t know there were two different rosters.
They should get a name. I will get clarification from the provost’s office, and I’m going to get back to you as quickly as possible. Thank you.
FACULTY: What about student-produced work and conversation?
Are we in the position that we have to police what other people … or how students address each other, or what students create?
Are we allowed to respond to what students create?
DEAN: Is it within a curriculum setting, within a classroom setting?
FACULTY: Well, we have a bunch in (class names redacted). There’s a lot of freedom to write about what they wish to write about.
Are we to direct them to say, ‘you are not allowed to write about these topics,’ or as long as we’re not telling them, you have to write about the topics?
DEAN: If it is part of the curriculum, then we were told that you are not allowed to address it.
Because if you’re teaching that and having a discussion about that in a classroom setting, that’s against the law.
FACULTY: But if a student were to take a research topic that they wanted to research… and they wanted to address something that doesn’t fit into the binary composition, are we to tell them, ‘you may not write on this topic?’ Or are we to treat it just like any other topic, because we didn’t bring it up and we’re not talking about it in class?
DEAN: Good question. You were not allowed to discuss that, nor allow that in the classroom setting. Period.
FACULTY: So a student could not submit a paper about a research topic about transgender?
DEAN: As part of the curriculum setting; correct.
FACULTY: So they cannot submit that paper, and we would have to tell them ‘you need to do a different paper.’
DEAN: That second part I don’t know about, but I need to get back to you.
But from what I understand, if it is part of the curriculum, if it is part of a classroom setting that is officially sponsored by our university, then correct, you cannot discuss it. You cannot have that as part of the classroom.
Now, if they want to write about it, fine, but if you address it and accept it, then you are advocating for it to allow it in your classroom. And you are put at risk.
FACULTY: So, we are not to accept a paper written by a student that does not conform to this law?
DEAN: That I don’t know. I need to talk to the provost; to talk with the lawyers. But if it is part of the classroom, and if you address it, and have a conversation about it, then you are putting the university at risk.
And you are putting yourself at risk as the teacher.
FACULTY: Why are the president and provost and these lawyers not here right now?
DEAN: That is a good question. We were told to get this information out to — who asked that?
I’m sorry. Because we were told to get this information out to you as quickly as possible.
And so what we’ll do is, I’ll bring these questions back … and I’m just trying to disseminate this information to you as quickly as possible.
FACULTY: How does this relate to SB 17, student art activities or clubs, where they are wanting to have these conversations outside of the classroom, outside of designated curriculum? If it’s a student-led, student-sponsored club.
DEAN: If it’s a student-led, student-sponsored organization, I understand that recognized student organizations do have a faculty sponsor, but the faculty cannot participate in that discussion.
We cannot tell the student what to do in their student groups outside of the classroom.
FACULTY: So, according to this law, the arts and creative expression are no longer protected.
DEAN: Again, that is a question for the lawyers, and I will bring that to you.
But in the classroom setting, you need to conform to what the law states. And the law states in Texas that we can only address biological men as men, and biological women as women.
No other genders are going to be acceptable to teach in the classroom setting.
It doesn’t matter what we believe or disbelieve. Whether you agree or disagree, I am just telling you what the law is, and what’s going to be recognized by the Texas Tech System and the state of Texas. That’s all I can say.
FACULTY: Yeah, does the calling everyone by the name on the roster, their like birth name, does that apply only to students? Does that apply to nicknames? Does that apply to faculty? Do I now have to call (REDACTED), or everybody by their full name? And are nicknames okay, or do you determine by gender whether we can call them that or not?
DEAN: Again, what is on the given roster, I need to figure out what that roster is. We need to follow that.
In terms of nicknames, I would encourage you to just follow what their given name is. I don’t know about nicknames. Again, it was a little bit unclear to me, and I haven’t had the chance to clarify that because we’re all in new meetings.
But on the roster, if it says Sergio, don’t call him “Serge,” call him Sergio.
But again, we need to follow the law, and we want to be as clear as possible.
FACULTY: You didn’t answer the thing about whether we’re supposed to call everybody that way, or just if it only applies to students in our class.
DEAN: I believe it would be safest to call everybody that way.
FACULTY: So, now I have to call my husband, who goes by (NICKNAME),(NAME REDACTED), while we’re on campus?
DEPT HEAD: The clarification was that if the name is male, the nickname is male.
FACULTY: What if the nickname is gender neutral?
DEPT HEAD: Then you can use it as long as it’s associated with a male.
That’s it, period. There’s a thousand permutations. There’s a Russian professor here.
Those people have to pick the Russian sort of, what would he call it, kind of name?
FACULTY: Yeah, he’d call it Sasha. Sasha could be coming from Alexander or Alexandra.
DEPT HEAD: So in that case, it’s okay.
ANOTHER PERSON: Yeah. But if you call someone named John, Vicky, you’re in trouble.
FACULTY: What if I call him Kelly, since that’s also a gender-neutral name?
DEPT HEAD: Then that’s their name. It’s a very simple process.
FACULTY: I don’t think it is.
DEPT HEAD: If the name is on the RamPort, call them that.
Or you’re going to get fired … the lawyers are at work already on this process. The lawyers have been called. They are gathering all this information.
And in the meantime, as the President said, you’re welcome to confront them, but ASU will not support you in that process. Period.
That’s what they said. But the lawyers are at work trying to sort this out. But in the meantime — unless you want to get fired.
That’s what’s going to happen.
FACULTY: That was a lot of rage you hit her with.
DEPT HEAD: What’s that?
FACULTY: That was a lot of rage you hit her with, by the way.
DEPT HEAD: No, that wasn’t rage. That was clarification.
FACULTY: It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of clarification at all in this situation, until the lawyers come through.
ANOTHER FACULTY: Yeah, it seems like they’re speaking for the lawyers and the lawyers aren’t here.
I’m not speaking for the lawyers when I said that. I was speaking to Dr. (REDACTED.)
I wasn’t speaking for the lawyers.
DEPT HEAD: I was speaking for my faculty. I don’t want my faculty to lose their jobs.
FACULTY: We’re not your faculty.
DEPT HEAD: Until the lawyers obviously are going to confront this.
This is against the law. This is against the law.
It’s against the law.
FACULTY: Except these aren’t laws.
DEAN: I will take questions and I’ll do my best to answer them. I appreciate everybody’s input.
And I will do my best to answer them.
Just a second. I’m going to look to see if there are any questions down the front.
Question: Are we allowed to teach works of literature that include transgender or non-heterosexual characters?
That is a no.
FACULTY: The email is specifically about gender and transgender. And you’re now saying sexuality is also a part of that.
DEAN: I would strongly encourage you to go away from it.
Because you will put yourself and our institution at risk.
FACULTY: What about the historical reality?
DEAN: Hold on. Hold on. I gave my answer. And now I’m trying to get behind it.
I need you to raise your hands, in terms of reference to that question.
FACULTY: First, I’m just going to recognize that you are the messenger.
And our emotional response is appropriate. But I absolutely understand that that’s not where you are within this. So bear with me.
Because, you know, the world is a challenging place.
Something that may be really, really helpful from the university would be a document of best practices, just so that it is clear and unified.
And I know that this is happening very, very quickly. But I guess it’s not a question. It’s more of a request.
Because, for example, right now I am teaching REDACTED in CLASS REDACTED. It’s a lot of fun.
Spoiler alert for those who haven’t. The twist is trans dinosaurs. That’s what that is.
It does not fall within the personhood section that comes out of the United States President’s statement. Because it exclusively talks about that functionality within people, not within animals. But the Texas stuff doesn’t have that specificity.
And there’s actually a lot of things where the stuff that was passed by one group doesn’t match the other one. The one that came from the President of the United States does find things as occurring at conception. Which is different than at birth.
Because at conception literally all of us are female. Can we expect best practices and something that is codified from the university?
I understand the university is hesitant to give ourselves, to put itself in a position. Especially because one of the major things this university does so well is provide financial support for students. (The faculty member here is alluding to the possibility of the university losing federal funding.)
I understand that hesitancy. At the same time, these laws are mutually exclusive. And in such a way that it creates a huge amount of back and forth.
Is there any anticipation on the best practices from at birth?
DEAN: Good question. That did come up at our chair’s meeting. And we asked for that.
So I’m hoping that it will come very soon. For instance, if somebody brings something up, to say, ‘I appreciate your question. I recognize your question.’
We are not allowed to discuss that. And move away from that discussion. I don’t know.
FACULTY: I mean, I hear what you’re saying.
DEAN: It did come up and I’m glad it came up. Because that was one thing that I would like to have as clear statements.
So I will continue to ask that.
They asked if they could have clear guidelines from the institution to guide us through this. And they said, yes, we asked that. But nothing as of yet.
And then Dr. REDACTED said, do you believe that we will be required to add statements about this policy to our syllabi?
And so, will we be required to add statements about this in our syllabi? That would be a directive that I would hope would come from the provost, the office of president, and even the law.
It’s forthcoming, I hope. I don’t know. I don’t know yet.
In fact, what I do know is that we are simply not including anything outside of biological men and biological women. And from what I understand, that is extended to LGBTQs. Extended to that. In the classroom setting.
FACULTY: On the topic of attorneys, are they doing something? Or just simply an obey-in-advance scenario?
Because we’re not really hearing a lot about what their — I mean — this is a clear violation of the First Amendment, Civil Rights Act, and a variety of things.
And from a historical perspective, you know, we’re coming up on our 250th, the anniversary.
We’ve heard a lot from the administration about patriotic history.
What happens when we get an EO of that open teaching history classroom?
I don’t know. They should be here to explain that. That’s not your fault.
DEAN: I get it. They should be here to explain that. This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
So, do you want to hear – just – do you want to hear from – I’m just a proponent to another meeting and, like, how long until – I just want to clarify what the professor said.
So, do you want to hear – no, right? Yes. Do you want to hear from the attorneys and from the institution exactly what went on?
FACULTY: I want to know what his response is.
I feel like we have a pretty good graph on what we can and can’t say, and I guess you should arrest me if you’re not willing at this point. But I would like to know what the response is. Are we willing to offer to die on this issue? That’s what I want to know.
DEAN: We’re not ready to answer that. not yet.
FACULTY: Until someone comes up with some kind of policy, can we have a script when we tell the student we’re not going to call him while we’re talking to him? And a script when the student writes a topic they want to discuss in class.
What do we say? We can’t discuss it. Why? But I want a script because I don’t want to say something and get him in trouble while the administration is featuring it in class. I’d also like a way to let the students know that this isn’t coming from me.
So the faculty are asking for a script once they have a student speak about what they want to call him, et cetera.
Sorry. That’s what we asked for.
I don’t have that literally available right now.
FACULTY: But they’re asking us to do it now, and they’re not giving us any tools to do it. And then it’s going to be on us because, like you said, we’re the ones who are going to be fired.
So how are we expected to do it safely when we don’t know how to do it?
DEAN: Good point. Good point. I will do my best to get that answered as quickly as possible. I will.
FACULTY: So I’m a REDACTED professor, and students, I’m thinking of all the students I have right now, and many students are in both fiction and nonfiction that discusses both gender and queerness. So just to be clear, I have to go in and tell them all, we are not allowed to workshop these pieces.
We’re not allowed to talk about them at all. We’re not allowed to read any of these things. And just kind of to REDACTED’S point, I’m wondering the university is kind of leaving us hung out to dry, that we have to be the messengers.
I mean, I’m thinking of these kids’ faces right now, what they’re going to look like as I tell them, and in one place where they feel safe to write about these things and talk about these things.
And we know these populations are vulnerable, that they deal with mental health issues, that suicide rates among them are much higher.
Thinking about being a messenger to that end feels pretty horrible.
And, yeah, especially in this kind of setting, in the classes I’m teaching. So, like, as I understand it, I have to be that messenger. The university is not sending out a mass email.
I have to go in tomorrow in my grade-learning classes and tell everyone else.
DEAN: As far as I know, yes, right now.
FACULTY: Are we going to be in alignment at all with Texas Tech?
DEAN: I would think so.
I would hope so. From what I understand is all of Texas Tech is going through this. Now, have I had the chance to check? I hope not.
FACULTY: So, do we recognize the difference between trans and gay? That’s my first question, because teaching Shakespeare, you know, men would play all the female parts. And I guess another aspect of that question is, if the answer to that is we can’t teach that, are we allowed to cancel classes until we get answers? Because, I don’t want to make any mistakes or anything like that.
And also, I don’t know, this seems like – I’m not too similar to yourself right now, but it’s just kind of being set up not to fail. B
DEAN: And if there’s other material to cover until we get an answer to that, I would encourage you to do that.
Or you can still teach it without bringing that up in the classroom. Perhaps you can say, ‘I need to get answers. I don’t want to get in trouble.’
You know, we focus on, you know, local lawsuits.
FACULTY: But cross-dressing and trans are separate.
DEAN: Do you want to raise your hand and I’ll recognize you? Yes.
FACULTY: Me, again? Okay. Is this restricted to only in the classroom during class time, or is this also supposed to be any time we’re on campus interacting with students, even ones that aren’t on our rosters, so we have no way of knowing what their roster name is?
DEAN: If you want to split hairs and put yourself at risk.
FACULTY: I’m splitting chairs because it’s a legal responsibility, and they’re saying you’re going to fire us, so we need to know how it’s enforced and exactly when, why, and how.
Like, that clarity is necessary. And
I’m sorry to speak firmly with you when you … but that’s an inadequate answer.
DEAN: So, again, I would strongly encourage you to avoid interacting with, when it comes to discussing trans identity, when discussing these types of things.
If it’s part of a classroom group with students and you’re engaging the students, I would strongly encourage you to avoid that because the university won’t ask you to.
FACULTY: That didn’t answer any part of my question.
DEAN: That’s all I can answer right now.
FACULTY: Will the university help provide us with extra curriculum that supplants what we already have?
Because, for instance, in CLASS REDACTED, we have many topics that do just discuss different kinds of theater groups, including LGBTQ groups. And some of my students have already read some of those chapters.
Do we tell them to close their eyes when they enter that chapter? Do I just remove it? It’s a smart book, so I don’t really have control over its content.
So what kind of recourse is there for that kind of curriculum adjustment, especially for someone like myself, who this isn’t a full-time position for me.
I’m an adjunct, so I don’t really have time to go scouring the universe for new material all the time.
DEAN: Again, if it’s in a book and you’ve already chosen, you’ve already started the semester, if it discusses these types of issues, do not discuss them in the classroom.
(DEAN restates his desire to have people to raise hands to be recognized.)
FACULTY: I was curious how this would impact our own research.
As someone who specializes in gender and sexuality studies, will this impact what I am allowed to publish with Angelo State’s name on it?
DEAN: I asked that question in terms of personal research.
I very clearly asked that question, and I was told that we probably wouldn’t receive funding moving forward. Now, I didn’t get a response — a clear response — on what would happen.
(MUDDY PORTION)
FACULTY: I think it’s a clarification on one case. So, I have a student, it’s a female that identifies as a male, and I just checked the roster.
On the roster, it’s the preferred name that’s listed. So, I’m sure the student can go through a process to put that in the roster, and that’s the preferred name.
When I click on that student, it goes to the student profile with the female name, or I guess the legal name.
The university will then refer to those, because the name that appears to be is the name that the student wants to be called and recognized by on the roster.
(MUDDY PORTION)
DEAN: That was one of the first questions asked, and we’re getting to the, I need to get to the provost, how it’s going to be dealt with in the system.
I understand also that there are two separate rosters — there’s an official roster, and a RamPort roster.
You were told to use their given name.
So, use their given name, you know, what is on the official roster.
FACULTY: In my roster, it’s not the given name. And I don’t think that’s going to be reverted, because they probably went through the official list and had that changed.
DEAN: The person in the very back, yes.
FACULTY: Well, this is, you know, we’ve talked a lot about this in the past, but what I want to know is, given that, you know, we push this idea of RamFam, what are we doing for the students?
They’re the ones who are really affected; I had a student in my class, who knew this was coming, came into my office crying — didn’t feel safe going to class.
What are we doing for them? That’s what I want the administration to …(trails off.)
DEAN: And that was a question I had as well, by a department chair and a friend. I don’t think we’ve had a response to that.
We didn’t get a complete response yet, because it’s so new. We’re trying to get the information out, so we’re trying to…
FACULTY: Faculty demand a response. I don’t think I’m just speaking for myself.
(Someone seconds the motion)
DEAN: I hear you. I hear you; I do.
FACULTY: So, I have a lot of different questions, but I keep hearing that this is a law that’s been made, that we’re going under, and then what it means for the students is that there is executive order at the federal level, and then essentially there’s a memo at the state level.
And I know executive order is for direct federal agencies, and the state memo is for state agencies, but neither of those are laws.
So, and — I know you need to get legal counsel on this — but I’m curious about why we’re being told it’s a law, but it doesn’t seem to actually be a law.
FEMALE VOICE: It’s a law.
DEAN: There is House Bill 329 that was passed.
FACULTY: But that’s about how we collect statistics, defining male and female, and boy and girl, and father and mother.
It doesn’t say anything about teaching in that one.
DEAN: I am not a lawyer… And so I will bring this question to you. I love your question. Thank you.
FACULTY: My question is about the pride stickers and removing those. Does that also extend to pride stickers on vehicles if they’re parked in faculty lots?
DEAN: From what I understood, it was just from the offices.
But, again, that was just what I heard. It doesn’t mean that you’re automatically …
some questions okay thank you all right in the very back who has not had a question yes very back yes yes well I will say.
FACULTY: Texas Tech has not been hit with this yet — I’m just saying everybody…
ANOTHER FACULTY MEMBER: Yea! … We’re first …
FACULTY: Okay, so how does this affect students working in the Academic Support Center? Or students to abide — the tutors — are they to abide by these restrictions as well?
Because they are associated with departments, and specifically the REDACTED DEPT.
They’re hired under the REDACTED department, so, are they to abide by these restrictions as well?
DEAN: From what I understand that things are being worked out with different areas of the institution — I don’t know personally.
I do know that things are being worked out and discussed.
So I would assume, because they’re advisors or whatnot, that they’re going to be trained; but that’s what I hope.
FACULTY: Because, specifically in the REDACTED, whatever students and the tutors they meet — other students writing, so can they help revise, or provide advice on work that deals with these topics, that they’re prohibited?
DEAN: That’s a good question.
FACULTY: And also, in terms of how students address other students, will that be affected?
Because they are students, they’re not faculty, but they are associated with other faculty.
DEPT HEAD: And students can bring writing into REDACTED to help if they aren’t necessarily assigned to the class.
They bring something in, and it’s a student to student peer tutoring situation.
That’s a good question.
I will ask that.
If it’s just independent audience, you know that they want to have a full question.
That’s a good question.
I will ask it.
FACULTY: That was actually the first part of my question, because in REDACTED, we have a large number of student employees.
And that’s the thing.
Within that, I’m in REDACTED.
I am WORK REDACTED right now.
It is a part of my course load, but it is not a part of my students’ course load.
I don’t have this information.
And I cannot ask them for it by the law, but I have somebody in my show– I have multiple people in my show who are not in the REDACTED department.
I’m not their advisor.
I have no ability to get that information because of this, but I also–
I’m also in a position where my REDACTED do REDACTED for credit, where there are educational elements to it.
I’m looking for best practices, because I don’t– I have students where I couldn’t tell you what their legal names are, because they’re in my REDACTED, but they’re a history major, or an exercise science major, or whatever the other ones are.
(A THREE MINUTE DISCUSSION INVOLVING STUDENTS INVOLVED IN ACTIVITIES ON CAMPUS, BUT NOT IN A CLASSROOM SETTING, AND HOW THAT WAS A CHALLENGE TO THE POLICY. DISCUSSION MOVED TOWARD IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS, CONCLUDING WITH THE FACT THAT SOME EUROPEAN PASSPORTS MAY INDICATE A GENDER OTHER THAN MALE OR FEMALE.)
Transcript resumes at 36:39
FACULTY: How did we get from a binary sex and gender, to now we can’t talk about LGBTQ.
You can’t talk about anything that deals with this, in literature or history or anything like that, when this has nothing in the scope of this law.
And I get that I might get fired.
I get that.
But what kind of risk is the university getting with someone who potentially has a problem with me teaching REDACTED?
Which is what I teach.
So I can’t get away with not talking about this…
…And so, I guess I just can’t imagine a world in which ASU is getting shoveled because I talk about REDACTED.
It’s very frustrating.
Yes.
It is frustrating.
DEAN: So, I will bring that to the attorneys.
(THE DEAN ACKNOWLEDGES THE FACULTY MEMBER’S POINT, AND MENTIONS OTHER THINGS THAT MAY CREATE CONFUSION OR PROBLEMS.)
DEAN: And so, what I will do, is I will add that question to the long list of questions, and I will try to get back to you as soon as possible.
FACULTY: It just seems like we’re getting in front of a problem that has yet to happen.
And if that’s– I mean, I in many ways get it from people on A&M.
But it seems like this is– we’ve taken this ball, and we have — to use an A&M metaphor — run it all the way downfield, right, to the point where it doesn’t even look like this law.
Why? is my question.


